Rework

When Robin Petravic and Cathy Bailey bought Heath Ceramics from the company's founders in 2003, they promised to keep the dinnerware maker and its manufacturing workforce in its home base of Sausalito, California. The pandemic provided an opportunity for Heath to recommit to this pledge and create a Living Wage Initiative, which in turn prompted a radical overhaul of the company's 401(k) program. Robin Petravic comes on Rework to talk about walking the walk on equity, resilience, and equipping Heath for the next 200 years.Robin and Cathy wrote about the Living Wage Initiative in Heath's January newsletter.Show NotesHeath Ceramics website | Instagram - 1:02"Edith Heath: A Rebellion in Clay" (KCET, 2019) - 1:14"A New Year, 166 New Owners" - 6:30"Marin County's intensive effort drove down a COVID surge among Latino residents" (San Jose Mercury News) - 10:46MIT Living Wage Calculator - 15:46Eau de Space - 25:16

Upsolve makes a free tool that automates the process of filing for Chapter 7 personal bankruptcy. The organization is an atypical tech startup that's also an atypical non-profit. Co-founder and CTO Mark Hansen comes on the show to talk about how Upsolve alternately embraces and subverts the norms of the tech and non-profit worlds, and why the "right" corporate structure won't necessarily prevent an organization from causing harm.Show NotesUpsolve website | Twitter - 00:40Mark Hansen on Twitter - 00:48"HHS failed to heed many warnings that HealthCare.gov was in trouble" (Washington Post, February 2016) - 1:52Rohan Pavuluri on Twitter - 2:28Jonathan Petts on Twitter - 2:29A 2014 study by the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau found that many payday loans trap borrowers in revolving debt - 3:45Upsolve's explanation of a bankruptcy discharge - 5:37Upsolve's explanation of the "meeting of creditors" - 8:17The Legal Services Corporation's Technology Initiativ

In 2016, software infrastructure consulting firm Truss made salaries transparent across the entire company. Salaries were revealed internally for all employees, from the executives on down. In this episode, Truss CEO Everett Harper and COO Jen Leech talk about why and how they approached their salary transparency project, and how they've adapted this system as the company has grown.For more details, check out Jen's write-ups of the project on the Truss company blog: "Why We Made Salary Transparent" and "How We Made Salaries Transparent."Show Notes Truss website | LinkedIn | GitHub | Twitter - 00:30Everett Harper's bio | @everettharper | Jen Leech's bio | @jennifermleech - 1:20Buffer's policy on open salaries - 3:27"The True Story of the Gender Pay Gap," a 2016 Freakonomics Radio episode - 3:47"Demystifying the Gender Pay Gap: Evidence from Glassdoor Salary Data" - 4:52Dreyfus model of skill acquisition (Wikipedia) - 6:43

Imagine if gig workers like rideshare drivers or grocery shoppers were compensated for their labor through ownership stakes in the Lyfts and Instacarts of the world. Imagine if companies distributed profits not just to founders and investors, but to their employees and customers. Start.coop is an accelerator for startups that are doing just this—reimagining concepts like scale, investment, and governance under a cooperative ownership structure, and trying to create a more equitable economic system in the process.Show NotesExit to Community - 00:13Start.coop | Twitter | LinkedIn - 00:37Greg Brodsky on Twitter | LinkedIn - 00:54Greg's dad, Howard Brodsky - 1:25Greg was on the board of directors of the Cooperative Development Institute, a nonprofit for coops - 1:38Start.coop's graduates - 2:29Jessica Mason on Twitter | LinkedIn - 2:5440 Acre Cooperative - 5:31The U.S. Federal Reserve says the typical white American family has 8x the wealth of the typical Black family - 6:50Equitable Economy Fund - 7:20

Basecamp co-founders Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson talk about HEY World, a new feature of the HEY email service where customers can create a super simple blog. HEY World has no templates, no endless scroll, no ads, no trackers, and no JavaScript. It represents Basecamp's attempt to create a Web 1.0 typewriter for our current digital age. In this episode, we talk about the return of blogging, countering abuse, and the sunsetting of Basecamp's long-running Signal v. Noise blog. Stay tuned until the end for a chance to win some Basecamp bucks! And by Basecamp bucks, we mean actual American dollars. Show NotesHEY - 00:17Jason's post announcing HEY World - 00:22Signal v. Noise - 00:34The dumpster fire project - 2:02Jason on HEY World - 3:10David on HEY World - 3:13"Pick A Fight (on Twitter)," a vintage episode about David's relationship with Twitter - 3:28"100% Facebook-Free," our episode about getting Basecamp off Facebook and Instagram - 4:40"Two Weeks,&quo

Equilibria, a company that makes CBD products for women, has a team of dedicated dosage specialists who do one-on-one consultations with customers. During the pandemic, this team has taken on an unprecedented amount of customer support—bearing witness to the heightened stress and anxiety that their customers are feeling around job security, caregiving, and family life. Equilibria's Marcy Capron Vermillion and Maia Reed come on Rework to talk about helping this team maintain their own stores of emotional energy.Show Notes"Women Tending to Their Basic Needs Is Not Self-Care" by Meredith Ethington - 00:12"This Is A Primal Scream," the New York Times' special report on American mothers' mental health crisis - 1:02Equilibria website | Instagram - 1:13Marcy Capron-Vermillion - 2:20Maia Reed - 3:39Illinois Women in Cannabis - 4:25Ellementa - 4:28Laura van Dernoot Lipsky of The Trauma Stewardship Institute - 12:12

A career climbing the ladder in tech and software left Jesse Noller feeling disillusioned and isolated. He found connection, community, and purpose in a different kind of complex distributed system—mushrooms. Today he's the proprietor of a spore-to-table business called The Humble Fungus. (Content warning: This episode mentions suicide.)For free and confidential emotional support, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800-273-8255.Show NotesJesse Noller on Twitter | Instagram - 1:02The Humble Fungus website | YouTube | Facebook - 1:10Community Food Share in Louisville, CO - 3:32The Humble Fungus "About Us" page - 14:12The Humble Fungus on Patreon - 20:50

Basecamp recently set out to do a carbon accounting, looking at the company's emissions, as well as meaningful ways to offset and mitigate those impacts. Jane Yang and Elizabeth Gramm, the two Basecampers who took on this daunting and nuanced project, come on the show to discuss not just the work itself, but how they've been processing the fear, skepticism, grief, and hope that come with trying to address the climate crisis.Show NotesThe United Nations 2018 special report on global warming of 1.5ºC (PDF) - 1:52"Why Air Quality Matters," David Heinemeier Hansson's presentation to the company about indoor air quality - 2:26The Uninhabitable Earth by David Wallace-Wells - 4:01Explainer on Scope 1, 2, and 3 emissions - 5:46Basecamp's former office in Chicago - 6:22"Spending in the Clouds," our episode about looking for savings on Basecamp's cloud services - 6:59Books by Basecamp - 10:18"Towards carbon negativity," Jane's first post about the project on S

Comfort and joy were in short supply this year, but we're doing our best to end 2020 on a cozy note. Merissa of Basecamp support talks about surprising customers with gifts throughout the year, whether it's to thank them for their fandom or apologize for a disappointing experience. Then Wailin shares a few items from her 2020 gift guide, and Joan of Basecamp customer support reviews a scented candle. Wishing all of our listeners a restful holiday season, and we'll see you in 2021!Show NotesFabric in Flames - 00:35love languages - 3:15Basecamp merch store - 6:15Elami - 10:42Voluspa - 14:29Packed With Purpose - 15:32Gift Boss - 15:58Greetabl - 16:15Barefoot Dreams blankets - 17:13Minky Couture blankets - 17:19Oprah's Favorite Things - 17:35Barefoot Dreams CozyChic Lite Circle Cardigan - 19:05Glerups slippers - 19:28Solo Stove - 20:06Corksicle Classic stemless wine tumbler - 20:25Parks Project x Rumpl sherpa blanket - 20:46Spindrift subscription - 21:25Mason Cash cane mixing bowls - 21:46Neog

HEY launch, App Store, we can’t take it anymoreAntitrust, masks a must, let’s go eat the upper crustComfy pants, TikTok dance, POTUS rants, protest chantsCOVID cruise can't disembark, David's back in DenmarkWe didn’t start the fire—well, in this case we did.Show NotesAndy Didorosi on Twitter - 00:09"Meet Andy," our episode about Andy joining Basecamp - 00:18Signal v. Noise - 00:33Adam Stoddard on Twitter - 1:36HEY - 2:22H.E.R.L. - 2:50The dumpster fire livestream - 4:38Detroit Bus Company - 5:59Nathan on Twitter - 6:48Raspberry Pi - 9:10Recycle Here (Facebook) - 12:30Ben Wolf of Ferrous Wolf Fabrication (Instagram) - 14:42Monica Dubray - 14:51Eric Froh (Instagram) - 14:53Josh Bacon on Twitter - 15:03"The Making of a Dumpster Fire" (SvN) - 25:31Polyamberous candle from Boy Smells - 29:08Kacey Musgraves collab with Boy Smells - 29:33

Basecamp is winding down a busy year with one more thing: the rollout of its HEY email service for the workplace. Co-founders Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson talk about privacy, marketing, onboarding, and the other considerations that went into making HEY for Work. They also reflect on the roller coaster ride of the last year.Show NotesHEY - 00:41HEY for Work - 00:46Jason Fried on Twitter - 00:56DHH on Twitter - 00:57HEY's spy pixel blocker - 14:12"The Spy Who Emailed Me," one of our episodes about tracking pixels - 14:35"Two Weeks," our episode about the chaotic launch of HEY - 17:05"Winston Sat At His Computer," one of our episodes about worker surveillance - 19:24"Don't Promise" (Signal v. Noise) - 27:16DHH did not write this copy about hygge for the Danish tourism board - 32:48

In the last several years, a group of Basecamp customer support representatives has developed an expertise around "on-call support," or tackling some of the thornier technical issues that require diving into the code base of our applications. This team of self-taught specialists grew out of curiosity, creativity, and an approach to programming that emphasizes fixing over building. Show NotesBasecamp's customer support team - 00:13Jim Mackenzie on Twitter - 00:55Jamis Buck on Twitter - 3:18Jamis adapted his original Basil & Fabian on-call notes into a series that teaches newbies about algorithms and computer science. You can read Basil & Fabian on Jamis' website or on Kindle - 3:27Dan Kim is now a programmer on Basecamp's Android team - 5:57how to make templates in Basecamp 2 - 6:30Wikipedia's explanation of traceroutes - 13:54Kibana is another technical tool used at Basecamp - 14:55our episode about holding office hours - 16:05Rosa on Twitter - 16:07

Since releasing Shape Up, the book by Basecamp's Ryan Singer about our approach to product development, we've heard from other companies who've also adopted this methodology. David Nichols is the co-founder and CEO of Loupe, a company that helps design machines for clients in sectors from aerospace to packaging. He comes on Rework to talk about using Shape Up principles with clients who come from a world of complex contracts and project overruns. Show NotesOur previous episode, "Shape Up: The Print Edition" - 00:11Shape Up - 00:16David Nichols on Twitter - 00:45Loupe - 00:49Six-week cycles - 7:56Circuit breaker - 13:50Loupe's explanation of how they "Ship in Six" - 17:30Our episode introducing Shape Up - 24:52We featured Hearth & Hammer on the episode "Bubble Wrap & Prayers" - 28:02

In 2019, Basecamp released Shape Up, a digital book by head of product strategy Ryan Singer about our approach to product development. Since then, Ryan has added sections in response to reader feedback and released a print edition. Ryan comes back on Rework to talk about connecting with other business owners using Shape Up, and how he approached the editing, design, and distribution of the physical book without going through traditional publishing channels.Show NotesOur episode introducing Shape Up - 00:10Ryan Singer's Twitter | website | newsletter - 00:13Shape Up: Stop Running in Circles and Ship Work that Matters - 00:16Basecamp's other books - 00:43Six-week cycles - 3:08Setting the appetite - 3:36Principles of shaping - 4:29Hill charts - 5:20What about bugs? - 9:48HEY - 10:33Making new products - 11:19Basecamp merch store - 16:21Notability - 16:57Ryan's live sessions are on the Shape Up page - 17:24Ryan's Shape Up Live session with Adam Wathan of Tailwind CSS - 19:34

Unlimited paid time off is a common perk in the tech industry, but as one company discovered, an open-ended vacation policy led to confusion and even burnout. Dan Jimenez of Chatbooks comes on Rework to talk about how they shifted from unlimited to mandatory PTO, and how they're recalibrating expectations for work, productivity, and rest during a turbulent time.Show Notes"How the 'Knives Out' Costume Designer Chose Chris Evans' Perfect Sweater" (The Hollywood Reporter) - 1:50"27 Days in Tokyo Bay: What Happened on the Diamond Princess" (Wired) - 2:16Wailin and Shaun discussed how they spent their sabbaticals in "The Bean Machine" - 2:51Basecamp's PTO policy - 3:11We addressed our PTO policy change in "It Doesn't Have to be Crazy at Work - Part 1" and "Rework Mailbag 1 - Part 2" - 3:25Dan Jimenez on LinkedIn | Twitter - 3:42Chatbooks - 3:45Nate Quigley, CEO of Chatbooks - 5:49Rachel Hofstetter, CMO at Chatbooks - 18:37Dan Jimenez&a

More than ever, the tech industry is re-thinking how work gets done and how great ideas come to light when people are no longer linked by their physical location. In this episode, we have frank but hopeful conversations with Deldelp Medina of Black & Brown Founders and Michael Berhane of People Of Color In Tech. They talk about the ongoing work of building intentional communities in tech and modeling what it means to truly trust and support each other.Show Notes"Duty Calls," the famous XKCD comic - 00:18"How Remote Work Could Destroy Silicon Valley" (Marker) — 00:40"'Rich people leave, artists and queerdos return': is San Francisco's tech exodus real or a fantasy?" (The Guardian) - 1:09Deldelp Medina on LinkedIn | Twitter - 2:07Black & Brown Founders website | Twitter | Instagram - 2:10History Channel article on the 1978 murders of San Francisco Mayor George Moscone and Supervisor Harvey Milk - 2:41PBS article on Jim Jones and The Peoples Temple in Guyana -

Better Product is a podcast by Innovatemap, a digital product agency. We are playing their episode featuring Basecamp's marketing designer, Adam Stoddard, who joins them to talk about Basecamp's design philosophy and the thought process behind the look of HEY.com. Show NotesAdam Stoddard on Twitter - 1:04Basecamp co-founder and CTO David Heinemeier Hansson discussed Superhuman in a previous Rework episode - 12:20"Superhuman is Spying on You" by Mike Davidson - 13:23HEY's pixel tracker blocking feature - 13:33

We talk to two very different small businesses about their Babies at Work programs, where new parents can have their infants with them at the office. With COVID sending so many office workers home—and pushing women out of the workforce altogether—acknowledging employees' whole selves is more important than ever. The companies in today's episode talk about how they've adapted their programs for a work-from-home-during-a-pandemic reality.Show NotesLeah Silber on Twitter - 00:05Tilde - 00:58Leah's 2017 essay, "Babies at Work: It's Weird that it's Weird" - 1:06Our episode where Basecamp employees answered questions about working from home with kids - 2:36"865,000 women left the workforce in September" (The 19th) - 2:48“We’re just beginning to understand the extent of Covid-19’s feminist nightmare” (MSNBC) - 3:05W.S. Badger Company - 3:43Badger’s Babies at Work program - 4:09"Parents Got More Time Off. Then the Backlash Started." (NYT) - 18:47Parenting in

Imagine a corporate privacy policy on a website that was actually comprehensible and written by and for human beings. We talk to companies who have done just this, and what it means to build a business that has respect for privacy baked in from the outset. We also talk to a researcher who's witnessed the difficulty of navigating online privacy settings.Show NotesMark Asquith's website | Twitter | Instagram - 00:21Captivate.fm, part of Rebel Base Media - 00:28Captivate’s privacy policy - 1:25Hana Habib's website - 2:57GDPR -  3:16CCPA - 3:18The study on privacy usability that Hana and her team published (PDF) - 3:46Kaitlin Maud on Twitter | Instagram - 6:13Rain or Shine Recruiting - 6:14Rain or Shine Recruiting’s privacy policy - 11:50Ryan Jones on Twitter - 13:16Flighty - 13:18Flighty’s privacy policy - 17:15“A Hosty Retreat,” our episode about switching podcast hosts over privacy concerns -23:00"Overcast's latest beta update tells listeners which podcasts are tracking them" (The

We do a quick check-in with Basecamp CEO Jason Fried about what he's been up to since launching HEY in June. He talks about running the company as the pandemic stretches on, the importance of not making promises, and learning to swim.Show Notes"Greetings from Mojito Island," our check-in episode with DHH - 00:14"Hey, What's Going On?", our episode launching HEY - 00:43HEY for Work - 2:47“Don’t Promise” (Signal v. Noise) - 3:51“Something’s Broken,” our episode on recent downtime - 4:58Coalition for App Fairness - 12:43Learn more about our conflict with Apple in our episode “Two Weeks” - 14:51Vox explainer on Apple, Epic Games, and Fortnite - 15:19